name prefixes and suffixes

[qgroom]

Name prefixes and suffixes are important disambiguating information. These should not be lost when data are converted or transcribed.

[matdillen]

How do we define what constitutes a prefix and what constitutes a suffix? Maybe it's more worthwhile to work with different aliases in general rather than separation into different properties. That also addresses the issue of name changes, such as with maiden names.

[qgroom]

At least in English there is a well define list of prefixes and suffixes e.g. https://mediawiki.middlebury.edu/LIS/Name_Standards

[qgroom]

How do we define what constitutes a prefix and what constitutes a suffix? Maybe it's more worthwhile to work with different aliases in general rather than separation into different properties. That also addresses the issue of name changes, such as with maiden names.

I like your aliases idea, but perhaps we should flag this issue for discussion

[dshorthouse]

The more we dig into this, the more we'll realize that human names are one of the harder problems to solve in informatics because there are many, many cultural-specific usages with numerous edge cases. The last thing we want to do is perpetuate a Western view by baking unnecessary structure into something that is necessarily fluid. That said, schema.org is clearly biased to a Western view. Here are some links if you do want to dig into this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorific
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title

My preference is allow these to be shared as aliases, #20 with the intent to supplement & enhance search as opposed to a bundling of rigidly defined reconciliation groups.

[qgroom]

In that case we should perhaps get rid of the verbatim name concept, because this would just be one alias.

[dshorthouse]

@qgroom Good point, though we'd want to change the example and tweak the definition of #20 to accommodate what verbatimName was also meant to contain. However, we get stuck chasing our own tails when we do not have the capacity to additionally express in what language/script any one of these #20 represent, nor which of them is uninterpreted, as written on a label.

[qgroom]

The point of the extension is not to provide a whole biography of the person so perhaps restricting entries to two names is sufficient

[dshorthouse]

Agree. I think our task here is to provide guidance on which two names & to seek consistency across all data providers who will commit to do the same. Are you suggesting we keep verbatimName and drop alternateName (or vice versa)?

What about when the verbatim text on a collector label is written, Mrs. and Mr. John Smith and we want to represent the wife in the duo? Is the verbatimName (if there is such a thing) Mrs. Smith in this case or are we interpreting the content?

[matdillen]

We are covering names related to occurrences. So, at most, we would expect two names for a single agent:

• the verbatim name as it is connected to the occurrence (e.g. written on the label).
• a general name that makes it clear who this person is (e.g. if the verbatim name is abbreviated).

Agents can have other aliases, but these could be obtained through the identifier. There could be multiple aliases tied to a single occurrence, but I suppose this would mostly be in different roles or tied to different actions?

[matdillen]

What about when the verbatim text on a collector label is written, Mrs. and Mr. John Smith and we want to represent the wife in the duo? Is the verbatimName (if there is such a thing) Mrs. Smith in this case or are we interpreting the content?

I suppose verbatimName should be Mrs. and Mr. John Smith for both agents. name can be Mrs. John Smith and Mr. John Smith respectively?

[wouteraddink]

I guess this is only for attribution of dead people, right? As for living people we should rely on identifiers like ORCID iDs.

[dshorthouse]

@wouteraddink No, there's no distinction here for living/dead. There is no concept of a version of record (or versioning) for one's name in ORCID & not really modelled as such in Wikidata for that matter. So, while we will of course use ORCID, VIAF, etc. as the glue to stitch together datasets or to share disambiguations, we still do require evidence as expressed at a particular time on a particular occurrence record.

[qgroom]

What about when the verbatim text on a collector label is written, Mrs. and Mr. John Smith and we want to represent the wife in the duo? Is the verbatimName (if there is such a thing) Mrs. Smith in this case or are we interpreting the content?

I suppose verbatimName should be Mrs. and Mr. John Smith for both agents. name can be Mrs. John Smith and Mr. John Smith respectively?

Agreed, but it will be critical to provide guidance that recommends that people do not strip the prefixes and suffixes from the verbatimName. Ultimately, it is the frequent loss of these elements that started this issue.

[wouteraddink]

I guess we need to get all the occurence recording tools to store ORCID iDs in the records by default :) Starting with iNaturalist..

…

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 at 15:06, David Shorthouse ***@***.***> wrote: @wouteraddink <https://github.com/wouteraddink> No, there's no distinction here for living/dead. There is no concept of a version of record (or versioning) for one's name in ORCID & not really modelled as such in Wikidata for that matter. So, while we will of course use ORCID, VIAF, etc. as the glue to stitch together datasets or to share disambiguations, we still do require evidence as expressed at a particular time on a particular occurrence record. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#35 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AADAUXTETDG3AFAIAYCZU7TRUZDGZANCNFSM4NPEWVHA> .

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[qgroom]

I guess we need to get all the occurence recording tools to store ORCID iDs in the records by default :) Starting with iNaturalist..

iNaturalist does already. inaturalist/inaturalist#2444
They started to just after Biodiversity Next, though I think it was triggered by a request from WikiProject Biodiversity https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Biodiversity