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Closes #1747.

@tobiaskleiner tobiaskleiner marked this pull request as draft December 8, 2025 12:53
@tobiaskleiner
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@GernotMaier I need some input from you to continue with this to match the output to the available schemas or to add additional schemas.

I see currently four schema files that contain 'incidence_angle'

"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle"
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"
  • I would suppose that we would use the current focal plane incident angle tables for what we call here camera_filter_incidence_angle ( If the filter is at the focal plane?)

  • primary/secondary mirror incidence angle is clear.

  • lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle: Is this related to the columns (18?) in the photon files:

#   Column 18: Relative optical efficiency factor (before pixel)
#   Column 19: Relative efficiency factor (including pixel)

Do we need also offset dependence for all of the above? We curently write out the incident angles at the focal plane for [0,1,2,3,4,5] deg.

incident_angles_multi_derive_incident_angle_MSTN-04

Anything else missing?

@GernotMaier
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@GernotMaier I need some input from you to continue with this to match the output to the available schemas or to add additional schemas.

I see currently four schema files that contain 'incidence_angle'

"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle"
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"
* I would suppose that we would use the current focal plane incident angle tables for what we call here `camera_filter_incidence_angle` ( If the filter is at the focal plane?)

This needs to be checked - please compare with sst_photon_incidence_angle_camera_window.ecsv and check also the redmine issue cited in this file.

* primary/secondary mirror incidence angle is clear.

* lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle: Is this related to the columns (18?) in the photon files:
#   Column 18: Relative optical efficiency factor (before pixel)
#   Column 19: Relative efficiency factor (including pixel)

This is a model parameter and we get the measured light guide efficiency from the camera teams (see the MST FlashCam parameter)


Do we need also offset dependence for all of the above? We curently write out the incident angles at the focal plane for [0,1,2,3,4,5] deg.
<img alt="incident_angles_multi_derive_incident_angle_MSTN-04" width="2000" height="1500" src="https://private-user-images.githubusercontent.com/66791124/523776708-d79ec2fb-916b-4c65-a5dd-f6029d100492.png?jwt=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.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.GU-Dz5Mlyejo41sy7E_XGTxIy9SN2mB56pjyIghtMQs">

Did you check the SST files and the corresponding links in the metadata? They are written out in smaller steps.

@tobiaskleiner
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@GernotMaier I need some input from you to continue with this to match the output to the available schemas or to add additional schemas.
I see currently four schema files that contain 'incidence_angle'

"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle"
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"
* I would suppose that we would use the current focal plane incident angle tables for what we call here `camera_filter_incidence_angle` ( If the filter is at the focal plane?)

This needs to be checked - please compare with sst_photon_incidence_angle_camera_window.ecsv and check also the redmine issue cited in this file.

This is comparison of on-axis focal plane incidence angle from the simtools application and the file above (calculated with ROBAST by Akira):
incidence_angle_distribution

* primary/secondary mirror incidence angle is clear.

* lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle: Is this related to the columns (18?) in the photon files:
#   Column 18: Relative optical efficiency factor (before pixel)
#   Column 19: Relative efficiency factor (including pixel)

This is a model parameter and we get the measured light guide efficiency from the camera teams (see the MST FlashCam parameter)

Ok.


Do we need also offset dependence for all of the above? We curently write out the incident angles at the focal plane for [0,1,2,3,4,5] deg.
<img alt="incident_angles_multi_derive_incident_angle_MSTN-04" width="2000" height="1500" src="https://private-user-images.githubusercontent.com/66791124/523776708-d79ec2fb-916b-4c65-a5dd-f6029d100492.png?jwt=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.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.GU-Dz5Mlyejo41sy7E_XGTxIy9SN2mB56pjyIghtMQs">

Did you check the SST files and the corresponding links in the metadata? They are written out in smaller steps.

We can give any list of offsets to the application. Can you point me to a specific file (the one above has no offset dependence) and couldnt find anyone with the smaller steps you mentioned.

@tobiaskleiner
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To clarify: offset in terms of offset of the simulated light source w.r.t. telescope pointing axis.
The incident angle distribution is of course finer binned than 0,1,2,3 deg.

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ctao-sonarqube bot commented Dec 9, 2025

@GernotMaier
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@GernotMaier I need some input from you to continue with this to match the output to the available schemas or to add additional schemas.
I see currently four schema files that contain 'incidence_angle'

"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle"
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"
* I would suppose that we would use the current focal plane incident angle tables for what we call here `camera_filter_incidence_angle` ( If the filter is at the focal plane?)

This needs to be checked - please compare with sst_photon_incidence_angle_camera_window.ecsv and check also the redmine issue cited in this file.

This is comparison of on-axis focal plane incidence angle from the simtools application and the file above (calculated with ROBAST by Akira): incidence_angle_distribution

Is that peak at 30 deg in Robast - that is missing in sim_telarray? Can you make a difference plot?

@GernotMaier
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To find a model parameter (e.g. light guide efficiencies) either use the simtool application to get the DB parameters / files or easiest is maybe to search in the simulation models repository e.g., for "lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence*" (and this will give you the file name, which is also in the repository).

@tobiaskleiner
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To find a model parameter (e.g. light guide efficiencies) either use the simtool application to get the DB parameters / files or easiest is maybe to search in the simulation models repository e.g., for "lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence*" (and this will give you the file name, which is also in the repository).

@GernotMaier I need some input from you to continue with this to match the output to the available schemas or to add additional schemas.
I see currently four schema files that contain 'incidence_angle'

"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle"
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"
* I would suppose that we would use the current focal plane incident angle tables for what we call here `camera_filter_incidence_angle` ( If the filter is at the focal plane?)

This needs to be checked - please compare with sst_photon_incidence_angle_camera_window.ecsv and check also the redmine issue cited in this file.

This is comparison of on-axis focal plane incidence angle from the simtools application and the file above (calculated with ROBAST by Akira): incidence_angle_distribution

Is that peak at 30 deg in Robast - that is missing in sim_telarray? Can you make a difference plot?

incidence_angle_difference

@GernotMaier
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Sorry - relative difference plot - this indicates better how large the differences are.

@tobiaskleiner
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To find a model parameter (e.g. light guide efficiencies) either use the simtool application to get the DB parameters / files or easiest is maybe to search in the simulation models repository e.g., for "lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence*" (and this will give you the file name, which is also in the repository).

Sure I see this file, but it has no offset (camera pointing offset) dependence. Thats why I asked if you can point me to a file with offset dependence, but I think none of them has acutally.

@tobiaskleiner
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Sorry - relative difference plot - this indicates better how large the differences are.

incidence_angle_relative_difference

@GernotMaier
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Good - we need to understand the large peak, please investigate. This affects a bit the normalization, so hard to see how big the difference for other angles is.

@GernotMaier
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To find a model parameter (e.g. light guide efficiencies) either use the simtool application to get the DB parameters / files or easiest is maybe to search in the simulation models repository e.g., for "lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence*" (and this will give you the file name, which is also in the repository).

Sure I see this file, but it has no offset (camera pointing offset) dependence. Thats why I asked if you can point me to a file with offset dependence, but I think none of them has acutally.

Wait - there is no camera pointing offset involved here. We look at the response of photons with different incidence angles.

e.g. CTA-LST_lightguide_eff_2020-04-12_average.dat shows the dependence on the incident angle. But note that we get this efficiency from the teams - what we need to be sure is that sim_telarray calculates correctly the incident angles onto the top of the light guides.

@tobiaskleiner
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To find a model parameter (e.g. light guide efficiencies) either use the simtool application to get the DB parameters / files or easiest is maybe to search in the simulation models repository e.g., for "lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence*" (and this will give you the file name, which is also in the repository).

Sure I see this file, but it has no offset (camera pointing offset) dependence. Thats why I asked if you can point me to a file with offset dependence, but I think none of them has acutally.

Wait - there is no camera pointing offset involved here. We look at the response of photons with different incidence angles.

e.g. CTA-LST_lightguide_eff_2020-04-12_average.dat shows the dependence on the incident angle. But note that we get this efficiency from the teams - what we need to be sure is that sim_telarray calculates correctly the incident angles onto the top of the light guides.

Ok can you look again at the first plot at the top with the incident angle distribution versus off axis. My question initially was if we need to add the off axis dependence (to the schemas/model parameters) for all the four:
"camera_filter_incidence_angle"
"lightguide_efficiency_vs_incidence_angle" --> this not we get from telescope teams
"primary_mirror_incidence_angle"
"secondary_mirror_incidence_angle"

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Write incident angle distributions as required by the simulation models

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